- [Narrator] Funding for this edition of One-On-One with Steve Adubato has been provided by Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey.

Here when you need us most.

The North Ward Center.

The Healthcare Foundation of New Jersey.

RWJBarnabas Health.

Let’s be healthy together.

NJ Best, New Jersey’s five-two-nine college savings plan.

PNC Foundation.

PSEG Foundation.

New Jersey Sharing Network.

And by the Russell Berrie Foundation.

Making a difference.

Promotional support provided by NJ.Com.

Keeping communities informed and connected.

And by The New Jersey Business & Industry Association.

- This is One-On-One.

- I'm an equal American just like you are.

- The way we change Presidents in this country is by voting.

- A quartet is already a jawn, it’s just The New Jawn.

- January 6th was not some sort of violent, crazy outlier.

- I don't care how good you are or how good you think you are, there is always something to learn.

- I mean what other country sends comedians over to embedded military to make them feel better.

- People call me 'cause they feel nobody's paying attention.

-_ It’s not all about memorizing and getting information, it’s what you do with that information.

- (slowly) Start talking right now.

- That's a good question, high five.

(upbeat music) - We're now joined by Dr. Bryan Crable, who is the Founding Dean of the College of Human Development, Culture and Media at Seton Hall University, one of our longtime higher ed partners.

Good to see you, Bryan.

- Good to see you, Steve.

Thanks so much for having me.

- Bryan, the subject that, you have a couple of books that I want to talk about today.

- Sure.

- But the one that is coming out, "White Sacraments: Everyday Rituals of White Supremacy," the core of that book is what?

And why is it so important to be writing about it and speaking about it publicly?

- Well, what the book is trying to do is answer a question that I saw raised by a blogger, which is how is it that a culture that does so much to dehumanize and oppress Black Americans at the same time also worship and admire them?

And so I became interested in the ways in which we think about White supremacy maybe incomplete.

We think of it in terms of anger or fear, people with tiki torches, engaged in violence.

I became interested in the ways in which reverence and admiration might also be a way in which White supremacy functions.

And so what the book does is lay an argument for that approach to White supremacy, drawing on the work of Ralph Ellison, Black American novelist and critic, in order to try to identify some of these rituals as a way for us to intervene differently into White supremacy.

- And by the way, your previous book deals with Ralph Ellison in greater detail.

"Ralph Ellison and Kenneth Burke: At the Roots of the Racial Divide."

- Let's go back.

So, you said, Dr. Crable, that White supremacy is actually more sophisticated and complicated than some people think.

The tiki torch visual that everyone knows, it's disgraceful, it's disgusting, it's speaks for itself.

But you're also saying that White supremacy can embody or have those who are in fact White supremacists, right, those who fall into that category, admiring a Black athlete, a Black entertainer.

For example, play this out for us.

- Oh, for sure.

I mean, one of the things that I've seen, for instance, in traveling in Europe, are all the ways in which hip-hop is sort of spread internationally or festivals in Europe that involve a great deal of Blackface sort of people in, average White people using Blackface as part of religious ceremonies.

Three Kings Day is infamous in Spain, for example.

There are a number of Christmas characters in Scandinavian countries that involve Blackface, as well.

And so, it's not necessarily just people who would identify as White supremacists, but I became interested in how everyday White people, someone like myself, might engage in practices that reinforce White supremacy, which isn't to say that I would sort of see myself in that way, but that my actions might be inadvertently participating in something larger and so- - Do we not know, Bryan?

- Hmm?

- I'm sorry for interrupting.

Do we not know?

- I think people don't necessarily, I think White people do not necessarily recognize the implications of things that they engage in.

And so that's part of what my book is trying to highlight, right, you think about examples of White people touching Black folks hair, right?

Sort of this fascination with contact with hair in that sort of fashion, or the ways in which Black Americans might be talked about in terms of food, right?

Like talk about someone's skin as chocolate or mocha.

And so part of what my book tries to do is sort of excavate the ways in which these kind of practices are actually problematic if we think about White supremacy in a broader sense, - Lemme try this.

I've got a friend and he knows who he is.

- Okay.

- And I've seen his, and he's a close friend, but I believe his views on race and racial equity and equality, they don't match up with mine.

And for me, they're problematic.

But he'll often talk about his admiration for Michael Jordan.

- Right.

- The late Michael Jackson.

- Right.

- And somehow imply that because he likes them and admires them, are fans of theirs, "We're all good."

And I won't debate him on it, but it doesn't add up to me.

Am I in the wrong ball field here?

- No, you're exactly in the right place.

And I think the comedian, Hannibal Buress, has a joke where he talks about on Saturdays, a lot of White viewers say, "That man runs so fast, I'm not even so racist anymore," right, like sort of that idea that you can- - Talking about sports?

- Talking about sports, right.

Like sort of admire or revere someone for certain qualities and then that makes you not someone who has problematic attitudes, but, "No, look, I appreciate, I revere them.

This person is my hero."

And part of what I'm trying to do in the book is sort of get at the ways in which, as you pointed out, Steve, those things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, right?

Engaging in those kind of behaviors doesn't necessarily take you outside of White supremacy.

It may be contributing to it inadvertently in a different kind of way.

- Bryan let me ask you this 'cause I'm also fascinated by our inability and or unwillingness in society to talk candidly, honestly about race, about race relations, about our own racial prejudice bias.

And I love people who say, they have none.

None!

No bias!

It doesn't exist in them!

Okay.

That being said, to what degree was it, is it problematic for you, as a scholar who happens to be White, writing about race in such a candid way?

And do you believe there are some folks who believe that this should not be something you're getting into because you're White and because you don't understand Black culture?

- For sure.

And I definitely try to play a very particular role and be very mindful of my position in this.

And so my book is about Whiteness.

It's about the ways in which White people and White communities engage with Blackness and Black identity.

So I'm not speaking about the Black experience because as you said, Steve, obviously, I know nothing about that.

But what I do have is expertise in what it means to be White and the way that White people think and talk to one another.

And so I draw on that.

- Bryan, hold on.

And again, sorry for interrupting again.

- Oh, no problem.

- Is the objective on some level to have us, those of us who are White, frankly feel guilty about- - Oh, no, no.

- Ourselves?

Then help us understand.

- Sure.

- 'Cause there are people watching right now who are thinking, "Okay, well what am I supposed to do with that?

Am I supposed to feel worse about myself?"

Please.

- No, no, no.

Yeah, no, it's not about a sense of individual guilt.

But I think it is a recognition of the ways in which we might be engaging in practices that are problematic, things that we don't necessarily think about.

And one of the things that's been challenging for me is thinking through my own implication in the things that I'm talking about.

That doesn't make me guilty.

That doesn't make me a terrible person.

But it means that if I want to understand and actually contribute to a more just world, then I should pay attention to what it is that I'm doing and I should think about it in a different way.

But that's not about individual guilt.

It's instead about recognizing how this is a system and a culture with a very long history.

And if I continue to participate in that without thinking, well, that's me reinforcing the problem.

And so I have another option, which is to recognize what's happening and choose not to participate.

And I saw a woman on TikTok say about her husband, a Black woman saying about her husband on TikTok, I thought it was really funny.

She said, "My husband's White, but he's not practicing."

(Bryan chuckles) (Steven laughs) And to me, I think that's the challenge, right?

How is it that one can be White but not practicing?

And that I think is one of the messages I want to take away with the book.

- The book is "White Sacraments: Everyday Rituals of White Supremacy."

The author, Dr. Bryan Crable.

The book is coming out soon.

The Founding Dean of the College of Human Development, Culture and Media at Seton Hall University, one of our higher ed partners.

Dr. Crable, thanks so much for joining us.

- Oh, thank you, Steve.

I appreciate the conversation.

- You got it.

We'll be right back.

- [Narrator] To watch more One on One with Steve Adubato find us online and follow us on Social media.

Recently, my colleague Jacqui Tricarico down at the New Jersey Education Association Convention in Atlantic City sat down with two leaders from the NJEA, one of our longtime underwriters and an underwriter of public broadcasting, with Kevin Kelleher, who is the Executive Director of the New Jersey Education Association, and his colleague, Denise Graff Policastro, Deputy Executive Director.

They talked as part of our series, "Who Will Teach our Children?"

They talked about teacher burnout.

They talked about mental health, mental health issues, and also diversity, equity, and inclusion in our classrooms.

From AC, let's check out Jacqui.

- Joining me now is Denise Graff Policastro, who is the Deputy Executive Director of the NJEA; and Kevin Kelleher, the Executive Director of the NJEA.

Day 2 here at the Convention.

Thousands and thousands of educators are walking this Convention floor.

So much to see and do here.

For you, Denise, so far, what has been a highlight?

- I think the energy of Spike Lee yesterday and Governor Murphy.

- [Jacqui] Been hearing that a lot, yeah.

- That was tremendous.

Like, the excitement in the room, Governor Murphy having the ability to connect with so many of our members.

Spike Lee was tremendous.

Just so many people being so happy to be here was my highlight.

- Yeah, what about for you, Kevin?

- I think it's walking the floor every year.

It's the same.

It's the excitement of educators coming down, really believing in their profession and wanting to be here, walking the floor, trying to learn more to bring back to the classroom, to keep our schools where they are, which is number one in the nation.

- Yeah, being exposed to so much information here, so many things that maybe they didn't know anything about, to broaden their education, bring things back into the classroom like you had mentioned, Kevin.

And one theme that I've definitely been seeing throughout these past few days is mental health, and the mental health of our educators and how important that is with the different types of things that are up here, some therapy dogs, just talking and making mental health a conversation.

How important do you feel, Denise, that is this year, especially more than ever, to make sure that our educators and support staff professionals are being supported in that way?

- I think it's critical, and I think when you see our goat yoga and the therapy dogs, really, our educators are...

They're tired, and it's been a rough couple years and to have resources available to them.

We have a variety of resources through our research department, through everything that we touch at this point, which demonstrates we need you mentally healthy to be in the classroom.

Our kids need you.

It's critical this year.

- Yeah, and what about for you, Kevin, seeing that theme play out here in different ways?

- It's not just the educators.

it's the children in the classroom, right?

We've all just come out of the pandemic, right?

- So it's also bringing it back to the classroom, bringing the support back for the children in the classroom 'cause this really is all about the children, right?

But the mental health has to be there for the educator in order to be able to give the mental health to the child.

So it's really a two-pronged approach.

- Question I have for you, changing it up a little bit.

AI.

This is something we're seeing a lot about.

There's something here set up this year, the AI playground, and I think what it's, and you can tell me if I misunderstood here, a really a way for educators to understand how to use this in a positive way.

Because unfortunately, we are seeing AI used in not great ways.

We heard recently some things in the news about Westfield High School students using AI.

First, I wanna know about how we can incorporate AI in a positive, healthy way because it's not going anywhere, right?

(Jacqui laughing) So we need to make sure our educators are equipped with the tools to be able to use that, but also when it comes to minors, and should there be certain regulations that are in place through the state or federal level to really have some components ready to deal with situations, like we saw at Westfield High School?

What do you think, Kevin?

- Well, when AI...

I mean, it's so brand new.

But when I was in the classroom, Wikipedia came out and Wikipedia was like gonna be- - You're not dating yourself, Kevin, at all.

- No, but it was gonna be the...

It was gonna be the downfall of education, right?

And letting students- - Misinformation, possibly.

- Right, and getting on there, and educators learn to adjust and adapt.

And you see students in front of computers all day long, right?

They're using computers and our educators adapt to it.

And so I think AI, we're gonna have to learn a little bit more about it, and the pros and cons, and then educators are gonna have to adapt on how to use it.

So maybe we turn and say, instead of saying, "Write me a five-paragraph essay on blank," maybe we turn that and we say, "I just used AI to write a five-paragraph, but I made some changes in it.

Can you go through this and find the mistakes in there?"

I think we have to learn to adjust and see how it's gonna be used, but we're so brand new into the field right now.

I think we're all learning and trying to figure it out and how to do that.

- Yeah, how do you see educators navigating this new part of... Technology is always a rough patchy area, right?

So how do you see them, really?

- To me, AI is like the internet.

Like, in three years, in 10 years, our entire world will be different because of AI.

And I think as we are now, as Kevin said, learning, how can we start utilizing this?

Our conversation today will be very different than next year.

AI is here.

We have to figure it out for all of our age groups.

What does it look like in kindergarten?

Which is such a weird thought, but it's going to look differently in every single school.

We know we have to adapt in order to make this work.

- Definitely.

Well, within another theme present very much here at the Convention is diversity, equity, and inclusion.

How are we making sure that diversity, equity, inclusion, and just really making sure that empathy is a main focal point in our classrooms for our students?

There's so much going on in our world right now.

What do you see as a... Kevin?

(Jacqui laughing) - It's a place where our educators, our members, are leaning into the work.

It is about empathy, it is about everyone, it's about including everyone.

It's something that we're helping our educators with.

We're out there, we're giving them workshops on it, we're got the film festival, we're adjusting this Convention so that there is more diversity, equity, inclusion training here.

So we're going back to the classroom and bringing it there.

So NJEA is leaning in, leaning in pretty hard.

If you see some of the keynotes, if you see some of the film festivals, as you mentioned, and some of the workshops, we are trying to move in that direction and bring it back to our educators to bring it back into the classroom and make it more of a inclusive environment for all in the classroom.

Last question.

You're both coming up on a year in these positions.

Talk about what you see as the future of the NJEA and what you see down the pipeline in the next couple years, Kevin.

- We have the shortage, right?

I'm sure you've heard it from everyone you've interviewed- - We've talked about it a couple times.

- You probably have talked about it, right?

The world is changing.

It's interesting I got a call from my son, who, his job has now gone completely remote.

We never really had to work.

He was nine-to-five in an office, and now he's completely remote.

We're competing against trying to bring people into the education field, but we're also competing with a different environment that's out there.

And so we have to learn to adapt and adjust.

We have to attract good educators to come in to keep our schools number one in the nation.

And I think there's a couple things we're gonna have to do.

We're gonna have to start looking at salaries, we're gonna have to start looking at working conditions, we're gonna have to start treating our educators in a way that wants to promote them and bring them into the classroom.

And so, it's something we're gonna have to work on over the next couple of years 'cause we're seeing the shortage.

And in order to turn that tide and make it a different way, we're gonna have to change what we're doing.

- And what are some of the challenges that go along with that, what Kevin said, of what needs to be done, how can we actually implement that?

- I think we have to continue to work on respect for the profession.

And when we talk about our educators, we're not just talking about our teachers, we are talking about our bus drivers, our secretaries, our cafeteria workers, our security.

- Those ESPs that we like to call.

- Correct, our ESPs are critical.

And when we often talk in the communities about educators, our minds immediately go to a teacher.

But our organization is about everyone, everyone that is building that village for our children, and that includes everyone that the moment you walk into that bus in the morning, that bus driver is checking to make sure that student's okay.

And to remind all of our parents, our communities, that we need to do this, we need to do this together.

We need to make sure that we are showing a tremendous support for all educators in the building.

Wonderful.

Thank you, Kevin and Denise, for chatting with us a little bit here at the Convention Day 2.

Like I said, thousands of educators all around getting some more information, knowledge to bring that to their classrooms.

Thanks so much to the both of you.

- You're very welcome.

- Thank you.

- Thank you.

- [Narrator] To watch more One on One with Steve Adubato find us online and follow us on Social media.

- Recently, together with my colleague Mary Gamba on our sister series, "Lessons in Leadership," we sat down and spoke with Father Edwin Leahy, the headmaster at St. Benedict's Prep.

in Newark, the heart of Newark, New Jersey in the Central Ward, where they teach grit, leadership, perseverance, never giving up, to young people, disproportionately Black and Brown men and women, young people in Newark.

It's a compelling and really interesting conversation with our friend, Father Ed.

- We're now joined by Father Edwin Leahy, Headmaster at St. Benedict's Prep.

Good to see you, Father Ed.

- Good to see you, Steve, thanks for having me.

- You got it.

We're talking about leadership because I'm fascinated by the Water Adversity Challenge, the WAC Challenge, WAC, W-A-C that I've been reading about.

What is it, and what does it have to do with leadership of young men and women, please?

- So as you know, by far, most of our students are from Essex County, and lots of kids who don't have, don't feel they have much of a voice.

So trying to amplify their voice is one of the things that we work hard at in creating leadership opportunities.

So we do the, all of the incoming freshmen come in and sleep on the gym floor for a week in the beginning of their freshman year, and at the end of their freshman year, they backpack the Appalachian Trail.

But I'd been thinking about it, and with different folks around here, we realized that after the backpack, there really isn't much that gives you immediate feedback on performance and on resiliency, and on the ability to become a leader, a better leader.

So we concocted two challenges, one in the 10th grade, which is the water adversity challenge that you're talking about with the help of a consulting group that works with us called Victory Road.

And part of the Victory Road team is a former Navy Seal operator, so we devised this because most kids of color, which are our kids, aren't able to defend themselves in the water, because they're never really taught to swim.

- Not a lot of experience with it, access.

- Correct, access to, and then teachers to teach 'em how to swim.

So we worked hard over the last two years there getting all of our freshmen to be able to swim.

And then in 10th grade, in the very beginning of 10th grade, they do this challenge, it's a five week program that enhances their ability to swim.

We've had kids that were afraid to go even near the pool, Steve.

To come in the pool area itself, it scared the life out of them.

So we've actually moved them through Adversity Challenge over the course of the five weeks to be able to, I watch kids that swim two lengths of the pool with their clothes on, and to tread water for three to five minutes.

- Why are you torturing these kids, Father Ed?

(all laughing) - They're the ones that we would call the Red group, which are the more fundamental kids, but they can defend themselves in the water, I'm confident of that.

There's another group that's way more, that's probably 70% of the class that will go off of a seven to eight foot tower with all their clothes on and a backpack, and a mask that's blacked out that you can't see out of.

And they go into the pool from the tower and shed the backpack, take their pants off, it could be sweatpants, whatever it is they're wearing, take their shoes off, tie the laces that in a knot, put 'em around their neck, take their pants off and inflate 'em, and remember, now they can't see, so they can be very easily disoriented.

And that part's difficult or enough, but in the water is the former Seal who then proceeds to attack them, in fact.

- [Steve] But Father Ed, hold on one second.

- [Mary] This sounds- - Father Ed, Father Ed, we've known each other for a million years, and you've come up a lot of innovative initiatives with you and your colleagues, and we'll show some video of this.

- Yeah.

- What the heck is the point of this?

Now you've got a Navy Seal attacking these kids in the pool, they can't see them.

- Correct, and the answer to the question is best described when Chris Howe, who's the Seal, taps their mask and lifts the kid's mask and to see their face, and to realize that the confidence they have as a result of being able to do that.

I mean, that tells the whole story right there.

As a result of this, we have kids in ninth grade working harder now to learn how to swim because they wanna be able to pass the WAC.

So it's become part of the place in just a very short time, three years, really.

And I'm confident that every one of our 10th graders, if they fell off of a dock, fell off a boat, they may not be able to swim for 10 miles, but they can defend themselves in the water.

They're not gonna drown within the first hour or two.

People can get to them.

- Mary, I want you to jump in, because when I first read about this, I said, "What is Father Ed and his team doing there?"

And I realize- - I know, I know.

Well, Steve, I don't know if you know, but I'm a former lifeguard, so I was a lifeguard.

- Didn't know that.

- Yeah, no, I was a former lifeguard, and so many of my friends failed because the water test was so hard.

You had to tread water for five minutes holding a brick over the water, and the second that the brick went underwater, the timer restarted.

But I could not even imagine doing this that you have said.

And I just wanted to get a sense, are there any of the students that resist this activity?

I know you're talking about the success stories, the ones that really embrace it.

Do any of them come out of it just saying like, "I can't believe you're having me do this," right?

- No.

- Is there adversity to it?

No, wow.

- Actually, the interesting thing about it, Mary, is we invite, at any point in the five weeks, any parent can come in.

- Oh, really?

- And watch it, yeah, so with the final challenge on the last day of the five week program, we invite all the parents, and I've had mothers cry up in the bleachers watching it, because they say, "Father, I have no, I can't swim, so I can't tell you how thankful I am that she or he is learning how to swim and be able to defend themselves in the water."

So many of our parents don't know how to do that, so they're afraid to go anywhere near the water.

- And if you grow up in and around Newark, and if it were not for the Boys and Girls Clubs at the time, when I was a kid, it was just the Boys Club, if it were not for the Boys Club, I would never have learned how to swim in my neighborhood in the northern section of the city in the north ward of Newark.

But beyond swimming, beyond getting over that fear, beyond the incredible accomplishment, what do you think this does for the kids who go through this longer term, Father Ed, in terms of their ability to deal with incredible adversity and challenges in life, please?

- That's, I think, that's the point of the, in addition to being able to learn how to swim, but to deal with the adversity.

There's a lot of times in life where you're gonna feel like you're sinking, right?

And what is it that you're gonna do in the face of that, right?

Are you just gonna let yourself sink, and therefore take second place, take fifth place, let somebody else get the job before you?

It's all about confidence and being able to compete in any kind of a situation, even more important now as things in this country presently begin to make it more difficult for kids like ours to gain access, right?

So to be able to compete with anybody, and in fact, to know that you're probably better than a lot of them is really, really important, I think, for these kids, and to have voice, right?

To be able to stand up and take control.

It's all run by kids, right?

The organization of the program, how it goes, the attendance, the discipline is all run by the kids who are doing the program.

- And Father Ed, tell everyone the demographics of your population, please.

- It's mostly kids of color, most of the African dispersion, so African Americans, and then the West African and Caribbean more recent immigrants, and then Latin American kids.

- Thank you, Father Ed.

- Thank you, Steve, for having me.

- You got it.

That’s Father Ed, that’s Mary, I’m Steve.

See you next time.

- [Narrator] One-On-One with Steve Adubato is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Celebrating 30 years in public broadcasting.

Funding has been provided by Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey.

The North Ward Center.

The Healthcare Foundation of New Jersey.

RWJBarnabas Health.

Let’s be healthy together.

NJ Best, New Jersey’s five-two-nine college savings plan.

PNC Foundation.

PSEG Foundation.

New Jersey Sharing Network.

And by the Russell Berrie Foundation.

Promotional support provided by NJ.Com.

And by The New Jersey Business & Industry Association.

- Hello, I’m Donald Payne, Jr.

Congressman for New Jersey’s 10th District.

One organ and tissue donor can save as many as eight lives, and improve the health of another additional 75 people.

That is why I encourage everyone to register as an organ donor.

For more information about organ donation, please visit www.NJSharingNetwork.org